Posts by Rob Crompton

34

History of Witnessing in the UK.

by Chariklo in

when did things really take off for the wt in the uk?

can anyone help with some research ideas?.

the proclaimers book gives some ideas, but i'm wondering how quickly it grew.

Rob Crompton

Hi, Big Mac, I might have known your mother in law cos I was a special pioneer in the mid sixties in Clydebank. I knew lots of the Glasgow folk.

And carry on googling, folks. There are some fascinating documents turning up online. When I did my research it was way back before the internet and Iwas fortunate to have been given a complete set of Russell's Studies in the Scriptures. To find other books I needed to trawl around second-hand dealers. Then I came across a retired Methodist minister who seemed to be a magnet for old books and knowing my research and wanting to help, he kept a look-out for stuff that might be relevant. Every now and again I'd get a phone call and he'd say something like, "Harp of God, do you want it?" I acquired a lot of junk from Norman, but he also came up with some real gems.

Btw, another title to look out for, though not particularly related to the Wt in the UK, is "What Pastor Russell Said," eidted by Leslie W Jones and published by the Bible Students' Bookstore in 1917. It's a compilation of answers Russell gave to questions people asked him. As I recall, it doesn't add anything to Russell's own writings but it gives a good insight into the character of Russell. It's not difficult to see why he was held in very high regard and affection. Highly intelligent guy - and a bit of a smartarse. Head and shoulders above any of his associates. Shame he got it all completely wrong!

Rob Crompton http://snigsfoot.blogspot.com

7

The fiction of the C.T Russell connection.i

by Phizzy in

it has been shown on here that none of the unique doctrines of the wt/jw religion come from charles taze russell, so the present org.

has no theological connection with him.. the historical connection with him is really a fiction too, what joseph.

f. rutherford did was seize control of the wt corporation, and ownership, and the chief writer and editor positions, of the watchtower magazine.. as soon as jfr got the power he started to sideline russells work, he had to be subtle, those that had supported his coup were still in thrall to ctr, and their support was not without its reservations for rutherford.

Rob Crompton

Russell had several derivations for the 1914 date and pyramidology was only a minor, supplementary indicator for him. The WT's present intepretation of the "seven times" bears only a superficial resemblance to Russell's interpretation. So, yes, Rutherford is really the founder of the JW movement - which is really a breakaway from the Bible Students who owe their origins to Russell. The only real continuity between Russell and Rutherford is the "trade mark" name Watchtower.

34

History of Witnessing in the UK.

by Chariklo in

when did things really take off for the wt in the uk?

can anyone help with some research ideas?.

the proclaimers book gives some ideas, but i'm wondering how quickly it grew.

Rob Crompton

Chariklo,

The book you want is, Bible Students in Britain, by Albert O Hudson, published in 1989 by Bible Fellowship Union. Hudson was a British Bible Student during the Russell years and was among the many who seceded following Rutherford's takeover. I came across him and his book when I was researching the origins of the WT movement as a post-grad sutdent at Durham University. Though I never met him personally, I had several telephone conversations with him and he was very encouraging and helpful to me in my own research. He was well into his nineties when he died.

I don't know if his book is still in print but if you draw a blank, PM me and I'll do what I can to help.

Rob Crompton http://snigsfoot.blogspot.com

34

Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed

by XJW4EVR in

when the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.

Rob Crompton

I think the perception of Jesus as being at odds with the religious ideas of his day is misleading. He is very much within the tradition of the rabbis. There was certainly consideerable disagreement between the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The latter did not believe in a coming messiah, resurrection, or a return of the gift of prophecy. The Pharisees did believe in those things. The conflict stories in the gospels reflect the same disagreements that were prevalent between Pharisees and Sadducees and also the debates amongst the Pharisees and Rabbis. And several of the parables which are attributed to Jesus in the gospels are echoed in parables attributed to other Rabbis.

A couple of books by Jewish scholars which I would recomment are: Jacob Neusner: Judaism in the beginning of Christianity, and Hyam Maccoby: Jesus the Pharisee.

(And perhaps I should add that the Pharisees are not to be regarded solely as the baddies. Folk who read Neusner and Maccoby can expect to see a very different picture to that which is usually painted!)

Rob Crompton http://snigsfoot.blogspot.com

34

Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed

by XJW4EVR in

when the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.

Rob Crompton

Pistoff said: "Most scholars think that Jesus the man existed, though I have never read a scholar who thinks Jesus was a Rabbi."

It is true that most Christian biblical scholars are reluctant to refer to Jesus as a Rabbi but he is quite clearly portrayed as such in the Gospels. In his ethical teaching and his use of parables he follows a similar pattern to the rabbis or sages of his day - particularly those who followed Hillel.

Jacob Neusner says: "Among earliest writers in Israelite Christianity, Jesus finds ample representation as King-Messiah, but also as prophet and king, and, furthermore, as perfect priest and sacrifice, and always as sage, wise teacher and rabbi. That accounts for the fact that the bulk of the ethical sayings given to him are commonplaces in the Judaism of the age." (Neusner: Judaism in the beginning of Christianity, p36)

Rob Crompton http://snigsfoot.blogspot.com

34

Bart Ehrman...Jesus Existed

by XJW4EVR in

when the uber-liberal, agnostic bart ehrman says it...it must be true.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bart-d-ehrman/did-jesus-exist_b_1349544.html.

Rob Crompton

I think it is fairly certain that there was a historical Rabbi Jesus who was expected, by some or even many, of his contemporary disciples to become Messiah, and about whom various miracle stories were told. To what extent the story of this Rabbi Jesus can be recovered from the gospels is debatable - as, indeed, is the extent to which this Rabbi relates to the Jesus of later Christian belief.

Rob Crompton http://snigsfoot.blogspot.com

17

JUNE 2012 AWAKE!

by St George of England in

the new awake!

is up for digestion.. another 537 bce article to be shredded - see page 12. george.

.

Rob Crompton

If they were to actually observe a field full of young cattle they would see a lot of sex play going on. I wonder what conclusions we should draw from that? :) And I wonder what other animals they might think instictively exemplify WT sexual morality. Maybe we should suggest a few.

51

Attended 2-Day Circuit Assembly--Highlights

by Cadellin in

since my spouse is an active elder, i accompany him to sads, cas and das, at least for the time being.

anyway, i thought i'd share some of the more odd/disturbing bits from the latest "sanctify god's name" ca.

there wasn't anything particularly new but the tone toward porn, higher ed, bad assoc, "habitual" murmuring and harmful gossip is definitely hardening, as are the cautions against social networking.

Rob Crompton

The overlapping generations teaching looks very similar to the doctrine of apostolic succenssion in the catholic tradition. Apostolic succession ensures an unbroken chain by the laying on ofhands from St Peter to ordained clergy today. Looks like the WT have adopted their own version of cathlic doctrine.

Rob Crompton

http://snigsfoot.blogspot.com

16

Do You Think Writing My Daughter is a Good Idea?

by mrquik in

i left several years ago & have one daughter still in.

she's 32 & married to a nonbeliever.

after i got labeled as an apostate, she cut off all communication.

Rob Crompton

I would say just drop her a line saying something like, 'Hi, here I am. I'm your mum (or is it dad?) and I'd love to talk with you.'

Don't try to argue or prove anything. Just be a parent who wants to hug your daughter. Yes, I know it's hard.

20

Is the Bible obsessed with numbers, if so why ?

by mP in

in another thread, i made the statement that the bible seems obsessed with numbers, particularly 7,12, and 40.. the perfect example is while it sometimes lists different tribes of israel names the count is always twelve.. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/tribes.html.

what were the twelve (or thirteen) tribes of israel?

genesis 49 numbers 1 numbers 13 deuteronomy 33 ezekiel 48 revelation 7 1 reuben reuben reuben reuben reuben reuben 2 simeon simeon simeon - simeon simeon 3 levi - - levi levi levi 4 judah judah judah judah judah judah 5 zebulun zebulun zebulun zebulun zebulun zebulon 6 issachar issachar issachar issachar issachar issachar 7 dan dan dan dan dan - 8 gad gad gad gad gad gad 9 asher asher asher asher asher aser 10 nephtali nephtali nephtali nephtali - nephthalim 11 joseph (children of) joseph joseph joseph joseph joseph 12 benjamin benjamin benjamin benjamin benjamin benjamin 13 - manasseh manasseh manasseh manasseh manasses .

Rob Crompton

Lost Lamb said:

"Even hard-core Christians have a hard time skirting around this “little” problem."

Actually, no, only a tiny minority see any significance in this numbers thing.

If you are really interested, try a google search for my old friend Peter Bluer and Bible numerics.

Personally, I think the numbers game is just plain daft.